Nyaya - Dharma Dhamaka

Moving this conversation to September 2026 (originally posted in May 2018)

Original Thread

The May 2018 Karnataka state elections resulted in a hung parliament.  As a political practice, in the U.K. the Queen asks for the formation of the government.  In the state of Karnataka it would be the state's Governor who had that task.

We wondered, what action the Governor would take, could take and should take.

Gautham

Gautham kicked off the discussion with a description of constitutional rules and historical precedent.

A discussion then ensued on what would be fair for the Governor to do and what would be just.

Srini

I used to think justice is a noble principle that refined and civilised people naturally have - until Surya sent us a link to the lectures of Harvard Prof. Michel Sandel.  I was wondering if the difference between what think should be done comes from applying different principles of Justice that the Harvard Professor advocated!

If I recall there are three principles:

1. Utilitarian (i.e whatever brings the largest benefit to the largest number of people is justice)

- E.g. - If food is in short supply distribute equally or based on a % of what each one needs. Also convenient example is - a man dies in accident - harvesting his body parts for saving five lives of people needing kidney, liver, heart etc is justice.

2 - Libertarian (each life is sacred and equal )

- Each one's liberty and right is inviolable. ex if five people need kidneys, liver, heart etc to survive, we cannot kill a healthy man to donate his organs. Each life is sacred !

3. Kantian - Justice by means of an 'innate' sense of justice.

But I clearly see this cannot be objectified into a code of laws or rules and therefore can only be a tool for culturally conditioning people (follow swa -dharma etc) and cannot be brought into legal jurisprudence. I think the differences we have while dealing with these issues may come when these principle are in conflict!

Earlier laws were considered as God given. Now it is collectively made by consent of majority humans on sound grounding principles.

This much after reading Yuval Noah Harari!

Venkat

Srini, Yes in brief.

In elaboration here it is:  It is the quandary of whether justice is absolute or relative. Is fairness objective is another...

That’s why we have not just one expression but two in the Indian system of thinking.

Nyaya which *may be* objective

Dharma which is perceptive. Deeply perceptive in that.

Somewhere intersecting or at time tangential is Sankhya, which is Pragmatism (though crude interpretation)

My two thambidis...

Surya

Hmmm - I don’t think I’ve ever asked myself what is the difference between Nyaya & Dharma ...

And if quizzed would not have said the former is objective and the latter subjective.  Excellent food for thought ...

So, Venkat .... let us accept your definitions and ask us to apply them to the following:

What is the Governor’s Nyaya action and what is his dharmic action in the Karnataka hung election?

(Let me pose this question to my father as well)

Prof. Kolluri

What is the difference between Nyaya and Dharma?  This is a great question!

There is very subtle distinction between them.  Nyaya is simply what is correct as opposed to Anyaya.

This can be exemplified by a court judgement, which decides what is correct according to a rule.

Unfortunately, this depends upon the people who laid out that rule. Further, this is forcefully imposed. For example, the Nyaya in China is not the same as that in America. So, Nyaya is not necessarily the same in all circumstances. Sometimes, Nyaya may not even exist!

For example a snake eating a frog is nature's course. There is no question of Nyaya here.

Dharma on the other hand is a 'Path'.  It is always true. It does not change from time to time or place to place. Dharma does not dictate what one must do or not do.It simply gives a broad set of ideas (not rules).

For example Hinduism is NOT a religion and does not tell you what you do.  For example, there is nowhere in Hindu Dharma that one has to go to a temple! It lets you contemplate on a set of ideas and choose what is appropriate to you.

An example is the method prescribed for different set of people to contemplate on the supreme.

Those who are highly knowledgeable in Philosophy follow a different path compared to those who are either not very knowledgeable or too busy in other activities which prevent them to contemplate deeply about that subject.

But the common thread between them is that, both try to be righteous in their own way.  But Nyaya is comparatively narrower and Dharma is much broader in concept.

This is the best I could come up with.  Maybe someone with formal learning in Philosophy can come up with a better definition.

Dev Anand

Nyaya and Dharma -  Professor's line of thought 👌👌; one of the best topics in recent times.

Surya

Indeed - I had a followup 30 min chat with Prof. Kolluri on the topic after his reply that included  case examples.

Example 1: Bheeshma sitting quietly when Draupadi was being humiliated.

Bheeshma was following Nyaya rather than Dharma

Example 2: Karnataka hung parliament

BJP being asked by the Guv - Nyaya

Congress being asked - Dharma

Example 3: In real life when family priorities are on the one which would an ordinary man follow?

Nyaya over Dharma

Example 4: But how about Thoreau, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Gandhi and Mandela?

Dharma over Nyaya

Example 5: How about Pol Pot & Stalin?

Neither Nyaya nor Dharma

Example 6: How about King Solomon?

Both Nyaya AND Dharma!

These may not be right - but that was the conversation!

Senthil

Nice explanation by professor👏👏👏. 

Nyaya is a variable👍 Dharma is constant👍 you can call it as Senthils law😊

Venkat

Delighted to have Professor's take on the subject.  It is a privilege to get his views always.

Agreed! The further I think, the more it intrigues.

Nyaya is "not absolute but it is objective". Since it is defined and standardized for a given society. It is "objective but also relative". Bigamy is an offense in India, but Nyaya in Middle East.

"Dharma is subjective" because there is no certain rule book. But the path is "absolute". It is "not relative but it may be multipronged."

The "contrast and balance of Nyaya and Dharma"; just as complex as that of "morals and ethics!"

These four not the same, but each contributing and influencing the other.

Surya

Agreed! Very nuanced and intriguing!

Henceforth on decisions big and small let us ask:

- Is it per Nyaya?

- Per Dharma?

- Is it Ethical?

- Is it Moral?

Hopefully it is yes to all four - but maybe we should settle for at least two out of four!!

Sumathi

But which two must be our priorities?

Let us give a crisp explanation in lay man’s language for all four!

Surya

Well let’s rank order them

I think the ranking will differ based on whether we want to be at the Gandhi end of the spectrum or unknown citizen* end of the spectrum for a given issue.

Gandhi end of spectrum:

1. Dharma

2. Moral

3. Ethical

4. Nyaya

Unknown citizen end of the spectrum:

1. Nyaya

2. Ethical

3. Moral

4. Dharma

(* Unknown citizen -  https://m.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/unknown-citizen )

Venkat

I do grapple sometimes if Gandhi’s end would be moral first or ethics.

Is moral more societal and ethics individual or is it the other way?

Surya

Some of Gandhi’s experiments with truth especially those involving celibacy tests could be viewed as moral but questionable on ethics?

Sumathi

Nyaya can be asked but dharma has to be practiced.  Dharma comes from knowledge and nyaya comes from principles

What is right and what is wrong is essence of dharma and the outcome or decision is nyaya

Satya, Nyaya and Dharma are the three fold path of Human Life in the World. Let us open the fold of Dharma first. Dharma dictates the principles of Life. It lays down the path and shows us how to Live and Lead our Lives according to the changing times of the World. According to the scriptures of Hindu mythology world experiences four Yugas (a term used to represent the reign of time), namely Kruta Yuga, Tretaa Yuga, Dwapara Yuga and Kali Yuga. Present we are in the Kali Yuga.

The Dharma in each Yuga is different and is being diluted in its form of Purity and Practice. In the Kruta Yuga, the principles of Dharma has been followed and practiced in its complete sense and fullest form. We can say that Dharma was seated on the throne having all the legs of it. 

So life is like Bliss and experienced Heaven on Earth.

The Kaala Chakra (time wheel) rotated in its own axis with its own pace and entered into Tretaa Yuga. Where the throne of Dharma lost its first leg of its four legs. Dharma became partially handicapped. But life was Beautiful and Bold during this reign.

The rotating time wheel entered the Dwapara Yuga. Dharma lost its second leg out of its four.As a result life became a Battle field during this reign. The Kaala chakra has no courtesy, it did not halt for anything and anyone’s sake. It entered into the Kali Yuga (the present reign of time). Dharma lost its third leg of its throne. Which made Life to become Burdensome like a Boulder.

So, Dharma is Time bound and its guiding principles of life also changes according to the travelling times of the world. It is understood that, the existence of Dharma is Permanent but with a Superannuation.

Now let us unfold the ‘Nyaya’. It comprises of Rules, Regulations, Customs and Order, which are different at different places and at different times. Nyaya considers the facts and not fiction. But the factual of the yester times are taken as fictitious in the present, so Nyaya becomes temporary and contemporary with the times.

Coming to the ‘Satya’, one cannot unfold it. Satya means the Truth. We can only experiment with the truth and experience the truth. And truth is always the truth at all times and at all places and for all of us. Knowing the truth means knowing the Absolute. In simple terms, realizing the SELF and attaining the state of no reincarnation.

Thus, one has to follow and practice this threefold path of SATYA – The Truth which is forever, NYAYA – the Set of Facts which is temporary and DHARMA – The Guiding Principles which are Permanent by nature, to make our Lives more Meaningful and Immortal.

Susee

 Great exchanges on the Dharma-Nyaya Dhamaka!

Professor has mentioned that a philosopher could explain these terms better.   Rather than getting befuddled with philosophy, I prefer the explanation given by the professor with such clarity of thought, lucid enough for everyone. While demarcating between Nyaya and Dharma, I particularly like the way how he segues into Hinduism - the highly misunderstood term.

The unanimous take is that Dharma is agnostic of time and location. Due to its universality, it is a superset, and pertains to a whole new dimension in contrast with Nyaya. Ironically, in certain situations, a casual observer gets misled and looks upon Nyaya as being the most righteous!

Here’s an example I could think of. In Mahabharata, when Bhima delivers the mortal blow to Duryodhana on his thigh, causing his fall, a very angry Balarama declares that Bhima has violated the warrior code of conduct that during mace fights, one shouldn’t hit the opponent below the hip. He is keen on establishing the Nyaya and he’s ready to kill Bhima in an instant. But Krishna (as always) steps in at the right moment, establishing that Dharma has the overarching need to be upheld, thereby silencing his brother Balarama.

Even in the present day, some folks, without seeing the big picture, are ready to jump on the bandwagon, ready to point out that the Pandavas won the war by unfair means!

Bharani

The net outcome of our collective destiny, thoughts, actions are positive, the Cosmic balance will tilt towards Dharma. If outcome is negative, it will tilt towards Adharma.

Two friends Ethican and Morali debate about donating to a Charity org in an enemy nation to help earthquake victims in that nation.

Ethican: I refuse to donate to an enemy nation.

Morali: I see them as fellow humans and will donate.

Nyaya: The law of the enemy nation permitted companies to use post-tax funds however they wanted. This Charity Org actually funded many terrorist groups.

Over time many such organizations around the world brokered Arms deals. World War III breaks out. Death, disease, destruction trigger a Domino effect. Money possesses Mind. WWIV and WWV follow. Major natural disasters occur. WWVI thru WWX are fought in Space. Cosmic balance tilts to extreme Adharma.  Finally Apocalypse. Kali Avatar performs their role to cleanse it of all evils.

A whole new world is formed . Dharma Samasthaanam established.

Krishnan

Indha maadiri confusing topic vecchu discuss pannaradhu  "Nyayama ? Dharmama?"

Venkat

Bharani, well written!

Sumathi, you asked for a simple explanation of all four.

My attempt is here:

You are traveling along a unfamiliar highway late in the night, you are famished and finally spot an eatery.

As you approach the small restaurant, the only person there tells you it is closed. We close at 10 pm. The time is 10.10. He is about to down the shutters.

As per "Nyaya"

Then he gives you a second look and says ‘let me see if I can help’.

I would say this is "ethics..."

He then goes inside and comes back to tell you the idlis he managed to find are not fresh ones but at least a couple of hours old. But he says they are perfectly edible.

For perfectly edible idlis, he need not have announced this...but that his "morality."

You are glad to accept those and he packs them right away with some sambar.

He then downs the shutter and rides away in his bike.

You come back to your car, settle down in the rear seat, and about to open the pack.

Just then another car pulls up beside you and there is a couple and a small child.

The couple look disappointed finding the eatery closed. You talk to them and they tell you how they lost their way and finally found an eatery only to see it is already closed. The young mother seems very much concerned about the child’s hunger.

You then offer them the packed idli and say you bought this ‘just in case’ but you would be glad if they took it.

Dharma!

Krishnan

Idli Nyaya......

Like

Fish nyaya ( big fish eating small fish )

Sumathi

Venkat - a doubt.  If the shopkeeper followed nyaya and closed his shop , the other three would not have happened ..?

Surya

Athu vidhi ...!

(Bala)

Vidhi = Destiny rules

--------------

Nyaya-Dharma Dhamaka ends.

New Thread in September 2026

Bala:

What an interesting story to hear Surya 👏🤝👍. Vidhi has a dual meaning of destiny as well as rules. Awesome

Surya:

One more nuance Bala!  I did not know that!!

*Vidhi @ aaru-padhi *

(6.10 in Telugu)

Since the time was aaru-padhi ⏰ 

I asked the pilot the sangadhi (❓)

You see, the flight was late ✈️ 

With the thunderstorms in spate  ⛈️ 

Ithu than frequent traveler-in vidhi? 🤔

Bala:

Surya I have written on Vidhi but in madras Tamil, please try to decode/decipher it 😊🙏👍

'தல'விதி

(தமாம் பாலா)

கருமம் புடிச்ச அந்த களுதைங்க

காம வெறி புடிச்ச களுசடைங்க

மனோகரு நம்பியாரு அசோகனு

மறுபடியும் மறுபடியும் பொண்ண

மறிச்சு கற்ப அழிச்சுட துடிச்சாங்க

மறக்காம பேசி துடிக்க வச்சாங்க

காரியம் முடியுரத்துக்கு மின்னால

கதவ ஒடச்சு நொழஞ்ச வாத்யாரு

பொரட்டி எடுத்தாரு பேமனிகள

பொத்தி அணச்சாரு குட்டியத்தா..

கற்பூரம் ஏத்தி கும்பிட்டே நானு

கையிலே பச்ச குத்தி கிட்டேன்

அப்புறமா தா தெரிஞ்சுது அவனுகள

அவகிட்ட அனுப்சு வெச்சது அவரு

அடிக்கு அஞ்சு ரூபா ஒதையும் ஒரு

நடிப்புன்னு அப்பதான் நல்லா புரிஞ்சது

திரையில நாயகரெல்லாம் வாள்கையில

தினுசா திரிய, சினிமா ரவுடி மாலபோட்டு

சபரி மல ஏறுறான் சாமிய கும்புடுறா

சட்டுனு ஒரு விசயம் பொறி தட்டுது

அடிக்கிறது மட்டு தலைவன் தகுதி

அடி வாங்குறது தொண்ட தலவிதி

அடி வாங்குறவ திருப்பியடிக்க சொல்ல

அப்போ மாறுது நாட்டோட தலவிதி!!!



Surya:

Thank you Bala!  Enjoyed the dishoom dishoom!

And here is my weary and wan response to you! 😝

Gliding with my guide

———————————-

In the play of life

With all its strife

I do wonder who is the guide

And through it all, can we glide?

Ahem, tapping me on my shoulder, is my wife!



Kanchana:

விதி மதி கதி சதி,, Loop of Life


Krish:

You left out Rathi ( ரதி ). :-)

Susee:

I completely forgot about this debate, Surya! To the last question “When the clock hits 10:10”, my answer is obvious - tilts in favor of Dharma than Nyaya. It’s fair to be just but justice itself is ultimately based on ethics - right?

In Yaksha Prashnam, you come across one of the toughest moral dilemmas faced by Yudhistra “Which one of your brothers do you want me to revive?”. The answer given by Yudhishtra to Yaksha is, in my opinion, the highest demonstration of ethics anywhere I’ve come across.

I usually get it by listening to scholars who sourced their work from the original texts. Let me try to find a YouTube link and send it to you.

I don’t rely on ChatGPT or Wikipedia for such information!😀


Bharani says:

Surya, it’s awesome to see the recap of this profound discussion we had in May 2018. The Idli analogy not only simplifies it, but gives more food for thought.  Point 4 at 6.05 minutes about cosmic wars seemed like a far cry then, but is fast becoming reality. I’m posting Elon Musk’s recent interview where he’s talking about putting Data Centers in Space, and launching satellites from the Moon with electro-magnetic guns. On our recent question on Kalki Avatar, AI put its own name on the form. So we do seem to be heading towards a reset button for Dharma.

Dharma samastha bana thaaya 

Sambavami yuge yuge